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Interconnectivity


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 Post subject: Interconnectivity
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2012, 00:48 
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Wraith  Wraith
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I felt it being important to share this.

Taking a look at how the map is developing right now brings up a few things that should be put to thought. The way the layout is forming is a little bit concerning, right now the map starts off and branches off violently to the west. and branching off further north, west and south.

Now its up to the next mappers to form the real layout of the map. Which means its important to bring up interconnectivity. With the base of the map looking like it does, comes with some risks of having the layout spread out even more to the west and also sidepaths going north and west. This is dangerous as the way the map progresses is damaged and it might run the development into a dead end. So, I put together quick sketches of what to do and what not to do :P
Heres what not to do:
http://i.imgur.com/Ifiat.png
The map branches off to different sidepaths and leaves the starting area all by itself.

Heres where interconnectivity comes in, and use of mapping tricks like Loops. You make a sidepath that branches off a bit and gives you like an adventure and on the way you might pick up a key or something, and you're led back to an old area by a new route, but new parts are accessible thanks to the key or quest item or whatever. Heres a quick example of how a interconnected layout would look:
http://i.imgur.com/72EAO.png

Theres an added area to the start that works as a sort of hub for a later part of the map. You go to the west to go on a sort of adventure to get the yellow key, which brings you back to the hub part that leads you further to a path that again leads you to a not visited, but atleast familiar area that you've seen through windows. you grab the blue key and you can now jump back to the starting area through the windows and go to the hub to open the bluedoor and continue the journey. This makes the map feel more like a map as a whole, not as a linear train where you can obviously see, "heres where phase 2 started, heres where phase 3 started" etc.

ZDcmp1 did this very well, there was so many places that were revisited again and again but still kept having something new to offer. Play through that one to get some ideas of what i'm talking about, it did this on quite huge scales aswell. For example you revisit the starting area after about a half an hour of gameplay.

So basically when you're doing your part of the map, think about the future, either design it so it can take you back to an old area, or design it so that its an area that can be revisited, it doesn't even have to serve a gameplay purpose, even just having areas overlook old areas or areas overlook areas to come is really cool. Focusing more on important aspects of the layout like this instead of the "detail" that seems to be so important in phase1 would be a good idea.

If you think its helpful that I write posts like this, I have another topic to bring up too.


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 Post subject: Re: Interconnectivity
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2012, 01:00 
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Cyberdemon  Approved Adder
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Screenshot #2: Tormentor's little secret area has to be recreated or modified into a normal area then.


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 Post subject: Re: Interconnectivity
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2012, 01:07 
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Wraith  Wraith
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Yeah, in that case.
Note that the point of the sketch was to merely give an example of how it works. And actually following this sketch is not what was meant with it. I just saw that secret area as a great place to actually have the map intersect in an interesting way to prove my point.


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 Post subject: Re: Interconnectivity
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2012, 01:17 
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Revenant  i am a xaser
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This is definitely worth bringing up, especially for the fact that one of the main reasons the old ZDCMP2 stagnated is because there were so many branching paths into nowhere that nobody was able to figure out how to connect it all together or make a sane progression out of it.

That and "spindly" map designs are often really off-putting since they give no sense of place and make it easy to be lost, not to mention backtracking hell. Some mappers may want to consider making some decently-sized courtyards and/or outdoor areas (again, kinda like ZDCMP1 did) that bridge things together instead of just hallways. That helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Interconnectivity
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2012, 09:59 
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Thanks for pointing this up, I fully agree with you and I am glad someone mentiones this as it is a very important point. It is exactly the reason why I added 3 possible entries/exits to my starting room and something that I mentioned in the Readme as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Interconnectivity
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012, 16:10 
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For all the mappers who start working on their part in the future: It is totally fine to alter already done areas to add new entries or connections to the stuff you are working on, don't forget that.

Interconnectivity is a very very very important thing. Also think about script-based changes to already visited places (e.g. UAC areas get destroyed or corrupted by hell and evil)


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 Post subject: Re: Interconnectivity
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012, 13:04 
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Chaingunner  Chaingunner
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That seems like a pretty cool thing. But I think it'd be kind of hard to detail around something dynamic as that later on. Maybe that's the sort of thing that should be left for phase 2?
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 Post subject: Re: Interconnectivity
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2012, 18:26 
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Agreed, we need to keep this in mind for Phase 2, I will post it there as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Interconnectivity
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2012, 11:59 
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Demon  Demon
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I would just like to add my own opinion on this... controversial though it may be.

*ahem*

TOO MANY CORRIDORS, GUYS. GEEZ.

Going through the map, particularly the south-western section, there are an awful lot of small square rooms with long, narrow corridors. This makes for a good maze, but does not make for a good map. Areas need to be as open, spacious and varied as possible - this of course makes for a good map but a terrible maze. We don't want a maze, though. Corridors are what get people lost.

Another thing: it may well be that there's too much texture variation. Using the resource wad is fine and all but i can't help but look at some of the areas and regard them as a bit of a mishmash of themes. Consistency in the look, as well as the flow of each areas, is key to making a good map with minimal potential for getting lost.

My changes and additions to the map have been minimally detailed in order to make sure that the rooms connect a bit better, and that there is as little negative space between each section as humanly possible.

I haven't kept track of the map's development all the way through, so I don't know exactly who did what part. Therefore, I won't rag on people. I'm a nice guy.

So, anyway, here is my suggestion.

WHEN PHASE TWO COMES ALONG, THE FIRST PRIORITY SHOULD BE OPENING UP THE MAP A BIT MORE. EXPANDING THE AREAS, MERGING SOME IF NECESSARY, ADDING WINDOWS, EXTRA DOORS AS LONG AS THEY DON'T BREAK THE LAYOUT, ETC.

THIS WAY, WE CAN ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE POTENTIAL FOR GETTING LOST.

...

Sorry, I don't want to come across as rude or condescending, but this is a very important aspect of map design which I feel has been a little overlooked. (Hence the shouting.) It's highly important to use as much of the map space as possible with wide, open areas, and use corridors minimally.

Oh, and I should probably mention that I went with Xaser's suggestion. The blue key is now in my section behind some red doors.
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 Post subject: Re: Interconnectivity
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2012, 14:28 
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Thanks for pointing this out, I totally agree with you on this issue. Also put a link to your post into the "Development Chain" phase 2 thread.


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